Why baseball is losing its place in American sports

[cardinals82]

Bud Selig.

Ever since he took over, the whole game of MLB has been strictly focused on making money, and that alone. It has become a game where money comes before fans. The average fan is lucky if they can afford seeing more than one game in person now, and they've put all the games on premium cable television, with the exception of Fox's game of the week.

What's really telling, though, is baseball's obsession with copyright. You look at YouTube or Google vids and you see that, despite the overt infringement, the NFL and NBA do tolerate a little bit of fandom by allowing some clips to be uploaded, unless they're directly competing with tapes that the leagues sell. They know that it's all apart of keeping the game relevant to fans.

But not baseball. No way. Baseball keeps all of its clips off the Net, so that people end up signing up for their MLB TV or whatever it is. What baseball clearly does not understand is that it is the history of the game that makes it special; the tradition; the many years of its existence, with all of its dramatic moments. MLB wants people to make the extra effort and fork out the finances so that they have to pay for the privilege of connecting to that history.

The question MLB ought to ask is why? Why would ordinary people who are busy gaming or IMing want to connect with baseball's past? To the online generation, baseball doesn't exist, because MLB doesn't want it to exist, apparently. And I'm sorry, but as much as I can appreciate the nuances of this great game - a game that I used to love playing in 96 degree heat and 80 percent humidity in July - I don't expect the Y or the ME generation to "get it", to understand what is special about the game. To most people, the game is incredibly slow, incredibly boring, difficult to understand, and if that wasn't enough, it's also financially out of reach.

Just a steady stream of incredible dumbness from MLB's powers that be, and that would explain why much of baseball's post season up to the World Series gets just a little bit of airtime on TBS. It's only going to get worse until baseball becomes a sport of the people again.

[CrashDavis16]

[jcarro199]

Well said, my friend.
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It's no wonder that he lacks testicular fortitude.....

[rasfan28]

It will be interesting to see how the game develops the next 20 years. We are in the midst of a completely different mind set of how kids are raised and what the kids do in their spare time. As a kid growing up, I was outside playing baseball, riding bikes or swimming. I lived in a neighborhood where all the kids got together for a game or two or three everyday. Now it seems there are many different things to keep the kids entertained whether its X-Box or whatever. Not saying ones better than the other, just saying.

I'm not sure we can blame all of baseball troubles on the Budman. There's plenty of blame to go around. Agents, lawyers, greedy players, greedy owners, the list goes on and on. Baseball is thriving and the owners are making more money than they ever have in baseball history. This is under Bud Selig. The owners are in no rush to get rid of him and the players are making tons of money and don't play under extremely strict rules, so don't look for the system to change any time soon.
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I wish we could find a 25HR, 100 RBI guy to hit fifth behind Holliday!!

[bookem]

Baseball's decline can in part be seen since the strike of 94. Since then, they have put more people in the seats and have made more money, but the game isn't what it used to be. Before 94 you could purchase a seat behind home plate for about 1.5 times a movie ticket. At least that's what my memory says. The net says the avg movie price was $4.08 in 94. Today, that same EXACT seat is 7 times a movie ticket. The seat is $101 today and was $14 in 94(I have the ticket stub). Using this link, , $14.00 in 1994 had the same buying power as $20.74 in 2010. Annual inflation over this period was 2.49%. I wish that was true with baseball tickets. If baseball tickets kept the same pace as movie tickets, that ticket should be around $35.

Last weekend I went to 3 games in a row. The second game I got to sit in my 'normal' seats and there was something strange going on behind me...people were talking not just about the current game but they were also talking about the history of the cardinals and comparing the current players to the players of yesteryear. I couldn't keep up with all the discussion and some of the players were playing before I really watched the game. In today's crowd, you hardly see/hear fans doing that anymore. Why is that? I think it's because the fans have been pushed away from the game. By fans, I mean real, true fans, not just people in the seats that go for the show. I'm talking about the fans that realize that sometimes you need to do a bunt to get a guy over. I'm talking about the fan that is just as happy with a bases clearing double as they are a home run. I'm talking about the fans that debate what kind of pitch should be coming next. Yes, I'm talking about the dying breed of fans that I was brought up with.

What has caused this? Is it just the idiosyncrasy of Selig? Well, he's the head guy so he's got some blame. So do owners that well overpay for abysmal talent. It's a sad day when a pitcher with a 4.5 ERA commands a multimillion dollar salary. Lohse the last 10 years has a 4.71 ERA and makes over 9 million. We all should be outraged. The players union comes into play too. It's hard to blame the true fans though. They've taken the only steps available to them. They either go to far less games in the same seats they always had, or move to cheaper seats, or stop going altogether. Unfortunately baseball doesn't notice this occurring. They don't notice it because they've done a great job selling their tickets to people that are not fans. They don't notice because the seats are still filling up. As long as there continue to be butts in the seats, the fans will continue to lose out on a great game.

I forgot to mention the announcers. The announcers are not really helping build a great fan base. They do a great job of trying to sell the game and help bring the butts to the seats, but they do this by only focusing on the candy factor of baseball. It annoys me when they say the batter is looking for his x home run. Why is that? I like to see guys hit the ball well first and if its done well enough it may be a home run. How often do they talk about trying to hit it into the gap to clear the bases? To me, the announcers are not helping bring that xBoxer into the game that they are missing. Of course, it's hard to bring that kid into the game. They are too busy and accustomed to instant gratification. With parents not getting credit the same way they used to maybe they'll help curb this type of behavior, but for now it's here to stay and the announcers have a hard role to play.

Fortunately for Cardinals fans there are signs that people are listening, that people may understand. When the Cards took their broadcasts away from KMOX, the true fans screamed and complained. Just like the rest of baseball, the Cards didn't listen and they chased the money. Now they are in the middle of figuring out if they should go back to KMOX or do some sort or craptastic dual broadcasts. Yes, I'll be disappointed if they do anything besides go back to KMOX. Actually, I could be happy with a different alternative. Let a fan get MLB radio on the net for free for one team only. Let them follow their favorite team. Try to keep the heritage and tradition while taking advantage of emerging markets and technology. They have also started a few programs that allow people to get up to free tickets and they base it on the number of games the team wins in a certain time period. I wish they would expand on that incentive and give some semblance of a discount to any seat.

I'd write more, but my belly is telling me it's hungry.

[MarTeezy2]

Its real simple to figure out why baseball is no longer the main sport in America.
1. The strike
2. Steroids and baseball's late reaction to them.
3. And the games inability to sell itself and its stars. Football does a wonderful job of staying relevant year round. Baseball had one thing that the other sports didn't have. That was history. And the way they let the history books get mangled by steroid use has taken that away. So now, they have the inability to drum up interest in players reaching milestones because there is a very good chance that those numbers are tainted.

Quick question. Who care's that A-Rod is about to eclipse 600 homers? Nearly no one, because you have to call nearly everyone of his homers in question.

Until baseball finds a way to steal some of the sports air time in the winter and regain the ability to sell its history, the game will continue to slip. Yes, people are turning out in record numbers to the ballpark. But the real test of a sports standing is the television ratings. This years all-star game bombed.

They need to kill the home run derby, and add a skills competition that displays some of the other tools and talents that players have. The talents that keep most of us diehard fans watching. I love the long ball as much as the next guy. But I love a great defensive play, smart baserunning and excellent pitching more.

[CrashDavis16]

Some great thoughts in this thread!!


I LOVE the idea of a skills competition, I'd like to keep the derby but figure out a way to cut the time down on it. Maybe less players and LESS commercials.....whatever the reason I lose interest quick.

[rasfan28]

I was watching a special on Whitey the other night and I found it interesting about how Gussie brought Whitey in to not only manage but also to assemble the team the way he thought best as well. They were talking to Whitey and he said that Gussie told him to do whatever it takes to make the club a winner. IMO Gussie was a Cardinal fan first and business man later. He said Gussie stayed out of the dicision making and left everything up to him. We don't see that much anymore. I do believe we are fortunate to have a owner who is a baseball fan as well, even though I'm sure money plays a big part in his (ownership group) dicisions.

In another thread we were discussing about if the team will be able to afford Pujols when his contract is up. Bookem was talking about the amount of the ticket prices going up so much faster than the rate of inflation. The same is true for players salaries. On Nov 19, 1979 Nolan Ryan became the first player to sign a million dollar contract. Only 25 years later we spend hours debating whether the Cardinals should pay Pujols 300 million for 10 years are maybe defer money or give him part ownership of the team. The whole thing is crazy to me. We had a 100 page thread this past winter on signing Matt Holliday. It had way more to do with money than it did about how many homeruns, RBIs, stolen bases or how well he played defense. Scott Boros also had his own thread.

There is no question that baseball is a great sport, and by far my favorite, but its not the game it once was. Collecting baseball cards has even become as much of a money maker as a hobby. All we can do is sit back and enjoy the talent that we get to watch whether its on TV, internet or at the ballpark. The players still get dirty, they have to pitch, hit, throw, catch, and run just like in the olden days. With all of the games troubles it still keeps me on the couch every summer night cheering, screaming and cussing. I suppose you just have to take the bad with the good.
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I wish we could find a 25HR, 100 RBI guy to hit fifth behind Holliday!!

[RdBrd83]

There are many great comments in this thread.

For me the basis of my love for baseball has nothing to do with past players, current players, fancy stadiums, television contracts, or video games. It’s about the little kid who ran over to the neighbor’s backyard every day to play 2 on 2, or sometimes 1 on 1 on 1 baseball. It’s about ghost runners, the pitcher’s mound counting as a force at first, and being out if you hit it to the right of the tree where a second baseman should’ve been. It’s about the first time you hit the ball so far that it was forever lost in the cornfield.

Kids now have so many other things going on, so it is no surprise that there might not be as deep of an interest in baseball. However, I think there is a difference between baseball loosing it’s place in sports, and MLB loosing it’s place in sports. I’ve been a baseball fan and a Cardinal fan most of my life, but I have to admit that I’ve started to lose a little bit interest in MLB, and it is mainly because of the money. A night at the ballpark could easily cost 2 people over $100 and so much of the focus is on the money and the contracts that hardly anything has to do with the game itself.

That being said, I wish some of the cost nonsense would cause more of a growth of minor league baseball. If I was closer to a minor league team I would probably go just about every night. Baseball is still a great game, even though there are many flaws with MLB.

[MarTeezy2]

[rasfan28]

[bookem]

There really is no one reason or a key reason for baseball's decline. There are lots of pieces to it and not all of them are easily seen or easy to figure out the exact affect. Having said that, if I HAD to narrow it down to one thing, it would be greed.

Greed has helped boost the steroid era. The steroid era was helped along after the strike to try to get more home runs because the home run put butts in the seats. That home run greed fueled the need for roids b/c the players that hit the most got the most green. But even before the steroid growth of the mid to late 90s there were other ways players tainted the game to give themselves an unfair advantage.

I grew up playing nintendo. My brothers and I also played baseball every day in the yard. We would then play the video game version too. We also grew up GOING to the baseball games. I think the fact that we got to actually go there a lot made me more of a fan than just playing it in a few of it's forms. We still play wiffle ball every now an then with the nephews. Basketball on the other hand is a sport I have never cared about. I know just a handful of players names, and I would be surprised if any of them are still playing. StL never had a team while I've been alive so there has not been much interest for me for that sport.

Part of the reason that it's harder to get home grown talent is because of their own greed like MarTeezy says, but it's also partially the fault of how many kids are not allowed or have time to play more than one sport. I also do believe it is partially the fault of the many other entertainment options kids have today. From MarTeezy's description of a lack of selling the players, I don't think anyone from StL would agree that MLB doesn't advertise it's players. One problem in SanDiego is that since 92 they have had 11 years of sub .500 baseball. That's NOT a big encouragement to market the team/players. I could easily argue that to me the NBA doesn't advertise it's players. Even with all the LeBron hype lately I would not be able to pick him out of a crowd but I know he plays basketball and upset a team by leaving.

One of the reasons Whitey was as good as he was is because he knew when to step down. He soon realized that he could not effectively manage a team and be the GM of the team. Once he saw himself using his GM role as a way of managing the player, he stepped out of that role. When the Blues had Keenan doing both roles, I wondered what would have happened had he not been the GM.

[rasfan28]

I think in Whiteys case was the fact that Gussie was enough of a baseball fan plus businessman to know what he had when he signed Whitey. If you hire a good baseball man to run the team, then get out of the way and let him do it, and that's what Gussie did. After Gussie pasted away the rest of the family had very little interest in the team and so we seen the results of that. If I remember correctly I believe that Whitey went to the Angels for a season or two and Gene Audrey's wife kept sticking her nose in the business she knew nothing about.

IMO Steinbrenner was another owner who wanted to hire someone and then tell them how to do the job he hired them to do. He hired people and then got in the way of something he should have been staying out of. I guess we could say that since he's the one paying the guys salary he can do what he wants. But on the other hand why hire a baseball guy in the first place if your not going to let him run the team.
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I wish we could find a 25HR, 100 RBI guy to hit fifth behind Holliday!!

[Vots54]

I think you bring up some good points, but I think the heavy competition from the NFL is the biggest factor. The NFL has 2 good things going for it.

There's always something going on, they've done a good job of spreading things out and also making it sure it's covered. Than, just the way the game's setup. It's a lot easier to follow an NFL team then a baseball team. It takes a lot less commitment from your average person.

What baseball needs to do is also work on making their sport more relevant in the off-season. They've started to do that, as MLB Network aids in that. But this is what I would do.

* April-October - baseball
* Late November/Early December - MLB Draft. The draft can be a very profitable thing for the MLB, but they place it right in the middle of the season. I know they wait until the NCAA season ends, but why not just wait a few more months? Not gonna hurt anything.
* January - FA begins. Most of the FA frenzy has died down by now. Here you take some of the attention away from the NFL playoffs and keep baseball relevant in a month where mostly everything's already in place for teams.
* February/March - Spring Training. This needs to be more of a spectacle for the fans. You somehow need to get fans around the cities more involved with activities.

Now 2 other things. The draft move can wait, because NCAA baseball also needs to get popularized first. MLB should be doing all it can to cradle NCAAB and help it grow. If more people have interest in NCAAB, then they'll have a ton more interest when the draft comes up at the end of the year.

And lastly, speed up the game. The NFL game's a good length. The average game is a little longer than an MLB one, but there's only 16 games. We MLB fans have 162 2-3 hour games every year. A game should only take 2 hours. Limit mound visits even more. Give a PITCH CLOCK to the pitcher. Would be perfect. 20-25 seconds once the ball's back in his glove. Put it right on the backstop. Also, batters can't come out of the box once they're in. None of this stepping out crap. There you go, 2 hour game.

Do that, baseball popularity starts coming back. MLB's been sitting back and doing nothing to help improve the game while NFL has overtaken them by leaps and bounds.

[cardinals82]

Wow! I posted this up early this morning almost half-heartedly and not expecting much of a response - more like a morning rant after some coffee type post. But there have been some really sharp responses on this thread. Thanks for the great comments.

I guess what really prompted me to start the thread was the fact that I was thinking about how I hadn't watched much sports-related television as of late. Once the NBA playoffs stopped, that's been pretty much it. But when I got to thinking, I remembered that maybe 15 or so years ago, this would have been about the time when I would have flipped on the television and either watched a Braves game on TBS or a Cubs game on WGN (later the White Sox were added to the WGN lineup). I spent a few summers watching WPHL(?) and the Phillies. I've always been a die-hard Cards fan, but wherever I lived, we didn't have the Cardinals TV network. I just miss those days of listening to the two fans who were posing as announcers supporting their home teams and getting excited about baseball, from one game to the next. It seems like it's all been toned down a bit with the ESPN games and the SportsNet games. And yeah, I think money's a big reason for the state of baseball.

But I guess the reasons are deeper than just the television broadcasting. For one thing, Joe West does have a point: the game just takes too long. Pitching changes, timeouts, and commercial breaks have turned baseball from a 2 1/2 game into a nearly 4 hour game. Makes me long for the days when Greg Maddux was pitching.